@jackkalvan luckily luke wilson figured out what a drop was years and years ago-
in the juggling of today, a drop is a failure of intention.
that a drop means something literally hits the floor, is a very antiquated idea. there are several factors contributing to the evolution of the meaning of the word drop, but mainly they are technical ones. with the discovery of lots of new tricks where the props never lose contact with the body, and a new focus on aesthetics (flow arts), a drop is anything which you did not intend to happen with the juggling pattern. i personally think we could all come up with a better word, which is more fitting for the juggling we do now. to still use the word drop, has such a strong historical and also literal meaning, and its very clunky to use in actual conversation. even things like judging the IJA stage championships, it gets very confusing over what is considered a drop or not, because the word drop itself generally means “to fall down” or something like that.
@jackkalvan your example over on arthur’s thread:
i would say has even more risk of dropping than a normal ball toss juggling technique. because if he misses a ball then the strings could get tangled and therefore the consequence of dropping (missing, making a mistake) is much higher. if i am juggling unattached balls and i drop one, i just recover it in whatever way i need to, and start again. sure, it can even have rolled away or bounced away but the object doesn’t usually affect the other objects. in the video above, even one tiny mistake with one object can be disastrous for the rest. and the reset time to get it all going again would be enormous as compared to regular toss juggling? of course all of this brings up other related words… risk, mistake, miss. and i think those are also unclear as to how we all use them, even to ourselves, let alone in talking to others.
another fun conversation to have in the context of what is a drop- the 2 flashes of 9 clubs…first, we have emil’s:
then, we have willy’s:
in both videos, no clubs hit the floor. however, using luke’s interpretation of how people use the word drop now, one could argue that willy had a lot of drops in that he didn’t catch the clubs by the handle. and that it was his intention to catch them by the handle. and maybe even that by the pure design of the props itself, just by the fact that it has a handle, points in some direction about what will be considered a success or failure?
personally i am not bothered by willy’s video. you can say that a 9 club flash is “all the clubs go in a crossing pattern, with an equal amount of spins, and are all caught in the hands cleanly,” or however much more detail you want to throw in there. or, you can say a 9 club flash is “throwing them all up one at a time and catching them.” in that case there needs to be no discernible pattern, just as long as multiplexing isn’t used. i think willy didn’t drop because it was never his intention to catch them all by the handle. if you look at his older videos, he clearly demonstrates his style is to use the handle as an option equally to catching it in whatever way he physically can. if anything emil drops because the last club is a triple spin and not a quad, and clearly emil has a different set of intentions than willy. so who dropped? emil, willy, both, or neither?
obviously a 9 club flash is more on the upper limit of what we think is currently possible with juggling. maybe i am more forgiving for this reason. but when i watch other videos and someone catches a wrong end of a club i always think to myself “just film it again!” especially when its clear they can do the trick with minimal effort. for me then a drop is what luke says, any failure of intention. and yes, i know you can catch a club by “the wrong end” on purpose, but then that is usually demonstrated and communicated by what kind of technique is chosen.